Comments on: So why is the City Loop inefficient? https://wongm.com/2024/03/fixing-melbourne-city-loop-inefficiency-reconfiguration-new-tunnels/ Marcus Wong. Gunzel. Engineering geek. History nerd. Fri, 08 Nov 2024 06:41:20 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.1 By: Brian https://wongm.com/2024/03/fixing-melbourne-city-loop-inefficiency-reconfiguration-new-tunnels/#comment-959297 Fri, 08 Nov 2024 06:41:20 +0000 https://wongm.com/?p=11343#comment-959297 Marcus, I don’t understand how this will alleviate congestion on City Loop stations. Isn’t the fact that Flagstaff, Melbourne Central, and Parliament being the preferred stations the inherent problem in this situation?

By reconfiguring the City Loop in the manner that was pictured, wouldn’t people on the newly created Burnley Direct simply change onto the Caulfield/Northern groups at North Melbourne or Richmond? – resulting in congestion at City Loop stations once again? Another commenter also highlighted that the diagram may not depict actual passenger activity which is a similar issue. We could end up with viaduct trains being empty, and the City Loop congested once again because people simply prefer going to Flagstaff, Melbourne Central, and Parliament rather than Flinders St or Southern Cross. Not everyone wants to take a direct train from Camberwell to Craigieburn for example – many want to go to the city.

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By: Frank https://wongm.com/2024/03/fixing-melbourne-city-loop-inefficiency-reconfiguration-new-tunnels/#comment-924730 Wed, 10 Apr 2024 09:04:05 +0000 https://wongm.com/?p=11343#comment-924730 I’m assuming the consultants are well across myki travel data when they design all this. I live pretty close to the city (Collingwood) travelling to and from work on Frankston line. The am is okay into Flinders and change , the pm is dreadful, you have to change at Caulfield, South Yarra or Richmond to get a city loop train (if they are running) and then change again at Parliament to get Mernda train. If I’m in the city i have to go around the loop just to get to Collingwood. Its almost faster to walk !

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By: Jesse https://wongm.com/2024/03/fixing-melbourne-city-loop-inefficiency-reconfiguration-new-tunnels/#comment-915446 Thu, 07 Mar 2024 00:33:09 +0000 https://wongm.com/?p=11343#comment-915446 In reply to lj.

No more inconvenient than the current arrangement is for any passenger wanting to do the reverse of your suggestion. You can never have a train split into two directions at once. And the solution is the same as current for all those passengers: change at North Melbourne or at Richmond for an appropriate train going the direction you want. At the moment, I come into the city on the Glen Waverley Line (which all run direct to Flinders) so I have to change at Richmond for a train which runs through the City Loop. The change is exactly as inconvenient, just for a different group of people; yet improves the capacity of the overall system and also reduces the inconvenience of anyone wanting to take cross-city travel.

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By: lj https://wongm.com/2024/03/fixing-melbourne-city-loop-inefficiency-reconfiguration-new-tunnels/#comment-915242 Tue, 05 Mar 2024 21:55:16 +0000 https://wongm.com/?p=11343#comment-915242 I’m slightly confused. Wouldn’t this mean it would be significantly more inconvenient for someone travelling from, say, Craigieburn, who wants to transfer to a v/line service at Flinders Street, or someone travelling from Frankston to Collingwood, or from Belgrave to work near Parliament? This just seems like a huge inconvenience for a large number of travellers.

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By: dat boi https://wongm.com/2024/03/fixing-melbourne-city-loop-inefficiency-reconfiguration-new-tunnels/#comment-915094 Tue, 05 Mar 2024 14:32:39 +0000 https://wongm.com/?p=11343#comment-915094 Great article, this definitely adds some welcome explanation and context to the PTV Network Development Plan. I experimented in my mind with an admittedly less realistic version of the City Loop Reconfiguration which requires re-routing part of the Upfield line.
https://unfeasibleideas.blogspot.com/2022/02/an-alternative-city-loop-reconfiguration.html

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By: andrew https://wongm.com/2024/03/fixing-melbourne-city-loop-inefficiency-reconfiguration-new-tunnels/#comment-914998 Mon, 04 Mar 2024 23:53:00 +0000 https://wongm.com/?p=11343#comment-914998 TBH Figure 16-3 gives me no confidence that they’ve seriously thought about how passengers will actually use their reconfigured lines.

Half of the Frankston passengers getting off at Parliament? Half of the Craigieburn passengers getting off at Flagstaff?

This is actually *exactly* the same flawed thinking that gave us the City Loop in the first place.

The thinking starts from “we have an operational problem, how do we fix it?” and proceeds from there.

In the case of the city loop, the operational problem was that demand was inbalanced between the east/south and north/west (making through running inefficient), and that the major between peak sidings were at Flinders St (limitting capacity due to the necessary shunting movements). The result was the concept of four uni-directional tunnels feeding directly into the stabling sidings, with a midday change of direction.

The operational problems driving these proposals are clear from the extracts you’ve included.

But note the absence of any consideration of where passengers are trying to get to, where they’ll need to change in order to do so, and what will need to be built or services that will need to be provided to make these changes work for the passengers.

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By: Gary Field https://wongm.com/2024/03/fixing-melbourne-city-loop-inefficiency-reconfiguration-new-tunnels/#comment-914995 Mon, 04 Mar 2024 23:34:44 +0000 https://wongm.com/?p=11343#comment-914995 Is there a professional individual or company that can analysis Metro Tunnels for efficiency.
A group of professionals including former transport planner and academics are planning an underground CBD rail loop for Adelaide, having seen their plan I believe it has serious shortfalls, the main problem that the rail loop bypasses the most popular entertainment and hospitality precinct in Adelaide, the East End.
The current plan is simply to make use of Hindmarsh Square to save costs and then expect commuters to walk the remaining distance.
The group didn’t like my appraisal so won’t let me be involved.
I need a professional in underground CBD rail Loop to look at both solutions.

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